Most people don’t have jobs they enjoy, programmers have somehow escaped this; better pay and more “protected” time instead of doing what the rest of us were doing all along
They did till 2025. Now more than half don't enjoy it as the technical puzzles/plumbing is gone. The outcome oriented folks find it fun (and amplified up).
I knew so many kids that got into selling cigarettes, alcohol, or weed because their parents did not want to buy them things that would facilitate social integration. Most optimistically, if you don't give a kid a smart phone then they're going to mow lawns or something and get one and hide it; that scenario isn't really a bad one.
Images are also a huge part of messaging. For memes obviously, but also other communication (here’s the flyer for the event, look what the teacher wrote on my exam, should I get this gift for mom, look what my significant other sent me — what do you think I should say?), etc.
Parents need to weigh potential otracization against the cost of giving a smart device, which could be as high as ending their normal childhood development.
Personally I think no phones until 16 is a good rule.
Parents need to weigh the potential bad effects of social media against the cost of otracization, which could be as high as ending their normal childhood development.
Social development is very critical during school-age years.
Most kids today go through their developmental years while using smartphones, yes. Is that quality of development affected by it? Probably also yes. Are children harmed when their parents force them into out-groups among their peers during their developmental years? Unquestionably yes.
There are other groups: scouts, football, dance, crafts, etc. Actually doing stuff in the world does not require a phone. Kids learn by doing stuff.
In general around this topic, there is a lot of post hoc rationalisation about choices already made. I've actually got a family member approaching her 30s who has spent the last 2 decades mostly staring at a screen, and has nothing to show for it. So for me the choice is easy, maybe less so for my kids.
16 is steep, at 14 I was going around by bus a lot, having google maps to track when, what and where the bus is stopping would have made an enormous difference (this is a big city, changing route due to delays is possible).
I wish I had it. (I had a normal phone, smartphones didn't exist yet)
I was navigating a big city and the surrounding countryside at the age of 12 before the internet was a thing. Apps and phones are not necessary for exploration.
I did not say it's necessary, but it's a HUGE improvement to moving with transit. You cannot change at the last minute unless you know all the bus routes, which you can do with a map app.
It makes an enormous difference for transit.
Knowing when the bus is arriving allows you to decide to walk. Not every places has buses that arrive on time. In Rome a bus can be late by 40 minutes, in which case walking is an option, especially if you are young.
I went through high school until almost 16 with no phone whatsoever. Twas fine. I remember peers around me for the most part had smartphones at the start of high school, maybe even some in middle school? I don't want to say exactly when this was for privacy, but I don't see why phoneless school living could be so disastrous. But then, I am a bit of an oddball and introvert.
I also grew up without a smartphone, but “stuff that kids talk about” happens online now. Wasn’t the case even 10-15 years ago, since you could still be part of conversations without a phone.
But yeah, I support the school-wide smarthphone bans. Not uncommon in Tokyo.
I'm living it. They don't despise me, yet. My youngest just spent a rainy afternoon reading books, drawing pictures, and is now breaking out a boardgame, the horror! Hopefully they grow up well adjusted and come to appreciate the sacrifice.
Cell phone and social media addictions arn't inevitabilities they are choices.
I really hope it goes well! I’m in favour of smartphone bans, but I can see how it sucks when you’re the only one without access to it. I was a teenager once after all.
That being said, I can’t imagine myself drawing pictures, or playing boardgames every day with my friends when I was 13. Wouldn’t be happy if my parents didn’t let me play WoW/AoM with my friends. Obviously everyone is different, and I’m in no place to say you’re doing it wrong. Just trying to say how it would suck if I couldn’t do something that all my peers are allowed to do.
This all is the main reason why I support nation-wide social media bans. Would solve the issue if no kids were allowed.
Shocker, but a lot of psychological damage can be done before you leave school. Do children really not have value, except as far as they become adults?
> Do children really not have value, except as far as they become adults?
Of course they do, which is why any sane (imo) parent wouldn't let their child on social media to begin with. Basically feeding your child's developing brain into the dopamine farm, along with the "it's on the internet forever" tax.
Social media is a cancer, not some bizare tool for their social or economic wellbeing or general happiness.
While I agree that the most popular social media systems have been engineered to be extremely harmful, and something I would seek to protect the children under my care from, this is unrelated to the comment I was responding to. "This won't feel important when you're an adult" is a really bad argument.
there is, pretty much every single smartphone brand offers parental controls
nobody stops you from limiting your kid to bunch of whitelisted apps, for instance whatsapp (it has parental controls as well), duolingo, wikipedia, phone, SMS, calculator, maps, flashlight, sudoku, chess, camera
Not sure why this has ended up preferable to a smartphone ban for under 16? Surely we could decide to sell dumber devices that allow communication without internet and image sharing / capture?
Regular device accounts now ask you to prove you are 18+ through different processes, mine was enabled based on age of Apple ID.
This is entirely seperate to the family sharing permissions that’s presumably the op is talking about, where I think? They are saying the permissions are not fine grained enough so workarounds are needed.
Here’s a hack, get yourself a cheap eSIM data only plan from an alternative UK network (VOXI, Talkmobile etc) if you main network doesn’t have connectivity; they will!
There's even eSIMs specifically marketed as being a "backup" esim, with coverage on _all_ UK networks.
At least on my android, you could set the second esim as a "backup" that it would switch to for data if the main one lost connection (it took a few seconds, so it wasn't an "always connected" experience, probably because the phone wants to save power)
Lots of options if you search for "esim UK all networks".
I used to be a first responder with a Firstnet setup (not just the plan discount, but the actual black SIM card) that could roam AT&T to Verizon to TMO as needed, so was as close to universal connectivity as feasible. Though (probably relatedly) it was always 1-2 generations behind (many areas were still ATT LTE, maybe 5GE, when they were rolling out 5G).
And the clusterfuck when I tried to transition my account back to normal, where an $8 balance that wasn't reconciled triggered the suspension of my AT&T whole family account, but when I tried to pay, no-one in FirstNet support or AT&T could tell me how much to pay or where or my account number (and this is in the store), until a poor store and a poor phone CSR spent THREE HOURS getting it resolved. "I am literally trying to give you the money to take care of this." "We don't know where to have you pay that money to fix this."
Or if your main sim is an eSIM, there seem to be 500GB/month business sims for effectively £2 a month online. You can't port your existing mobile phone number over, but it's fine for data.
> Developers need the dopamine hit of creation. That’s not a perk, it’s what keeps good engineers engaged, learning, retained, and prevents burnout.
Are developers some kind of special creature? or must they simply learn to deal with the complexity of juggling multiple projects, like every other desk job in 2026.
Mullvad UK customer here, I don’t think watching Americans order at a drive thru is a very compelling ad, had this campaign been more than jus “oh they banned us” you might have got somewhere. Many many UK ads have been banned over the years, the smart ones used the ban to their advantage, this isn’t it.
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