Asking for evidence of claims is very offensive to those who don’t have any.
They feel very strongly about a topic, but it’s entirely based on their various personal experiences. They arrive at the conclusion first, and then try to arrange reality around their opinions.
When people write it that way it’s as useless as going “source?” I hope I don’t have to to explain the problem with that approach to discussion, but I will anyway.
It takes no effort and almost always obfuscates the fact that they object but would rather try and put a bunch of burden on the person rather than actually articulate their disagreement. It also gives them the semblance of being “above the fray” and “just asking questions.” It’s this nonsense https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48154443 on repeat. It’s plausible deniability.
I am very surprised this has to be explained on HN. This is an old debate tactic and one that is frequently, as well as lazily, deployed on the internet. It’s a close cousin to sealioning and usually morphs into it. You are engaging in a tactic that covers your rear, requires no actual expression of opinions or values, and burdens others.
It is very unlikely you don’t have an opinion on this subject and yet you are acting like a casual observer with no opinion. If I’m wrong then I bet wrong on otherwise smart money and I apologize for the mistake.
I very much have an opinion on the subject and never claimed otherwise. My opinion is that lobbying is a nonissue and there’s very little money in politics, and that money doesn’t really impact political outcomes.
What makes you think that this is something I’m obscuring?
> I very much have an opinion on the subject and never claimed otherwise
Of course you do. That’s why I said something. Your omission is the problem, you intentionally didn’t say anything.
> What makes you think that this is something I’m obscuring?
This entire comment chain explains why I think that I don’t know why we’re playing games here - just be straight with people out the gate. Opacity doesn’t facilitate conversation. I know you understand what I’m talking about and I won’t belabor the point further.
Ah, I see, you have an emotional / personal investment in this topic. That’s why my harmless request for evidence offends you.
I won’t engage further then because it won’t be productive. I’ll continue to call out baseless claims of course, but I don’t think there’s any amount of argumentation or evidence that could convince you since you arrived at your position via feeling - proof or citations are just window dressing.
Yeah they are. Americans engage in more unhealthy eating, crime, and drug use than Australians. It’s very easy for me to believe that they’re 3 times as sick.
Australia is very close behind the US in obesity and illicit drug use.
Side note: I'm an Australian citizen, living in the States.
An Australian hospital doesn't need a billing/collections department and the docs don't sit on appeals calls with insurance; when my wife broke her foot visiting, they basically didn't know how to bill her (for surgery and three days in a ward!). My son needed a badly ingrown toenail treated on a separate visit there last year; they just treated it and sent us on our way, no charge, despite his being a tourist.
> I didn’t say obesity, I said unhealthy eating. Those aren’t the same thing.
Australians eat a substantially similar diet to Americans, and have similar health issues (obesity, heart disease, etc.) as a result. They are deeply related things.
> I straight up don’t believe the drug use one, we have way more fentalyl deaths than you and it’s not even close.
Gee, I wonder if not having healthcare (including access to things like therapy and rehab) might drive up drug death rates.
> You didn’t address crime.
Sure; you didn't address how it's responsible for 3x the healthcare costs.
Feel free to cite something that proves that Australian diets are similar to American diets. I don’t believe claims made without evidence.
Deaths are pretty much 1:1 with drug use. Us having more fentanyl deaths mean we have more fentanyl users. Feel free to cite something that proves that Australia has the same amount of drug users as the United States.
It’s a contributing factor. Americans consume healthcare at much higher rates for many reasons, some of which I listed above. I’d fully expect Americans to pay more when they consume more.
"According to the 2022–2023 National Drug Strategy Household Survey (NDSHS), an estimated 10.2 million (47%) people aged 14 and over in Australia had illicitly used a drug at some point in their lifetime (including the non-medical use of pharmaceuticals), and an estimated 3.9 million (18%) had used an illicit drug in the previous 12 months."
"Among Americans aged 12 years and older… 70.5 million or 24.9% of people 12 and over have used illegal drugs or misused prescription drugs within the last year."
That's broadly quite similar.
> Deaths are pretty much 1:1 with drug use.
You can absolutely reduce drug death rates with safe injection sites, needle programs, narcan distribution, safety education, substance abuse treatment, etc.
> Americans consume healthcare at much higher rates for many reasons, some of which I listed above.
Americans pay substantially more money for the same procedures and medications. Again: THE EXACT SAME THING; no difference in amount or quality consumed, just drastically more money going into corporate pockets.
"Atorvastatin, a medication to lower cholesterol and prevent cardiovascular disease, is priced as little as A$6.70 for 30 tablets in Australia, compared to US$2,628 for Americans."
"However, the biggest shock was Sofosbuvir, which treats hepatitis C, with a 12-week treatment roughly costing an eyewatering US$84,000 without insurance and discounts. Meanwhile, it costs about $31 for a packet of 28 in Australia on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS)."
It "costs" much less--because in reality we end up footing the R&D bill. The drug companies tolerate sales to the UHC countries so long as it's above their marginal cost. If US customers were also paying $31 for that Sofosbuvir there's no way the company would recoup costs and they would not develop it.
Fixing this will cause big shakeups in the universal coverage systems and thus big political shakeups. It should be done, but gradually.
I will also say the comparison is false--my wife is on Atorvastatin, it's even less than what you are quoting for Australia. You're comparing the brand name with the generic.
The service is not “free healthcare for any procedure ordered by a doctor all the time without limits”, they have the right to refuse something they feel is unnecessary
Why isn’t it “any procedure performed by a doctor all the time with no limits”? Do you think there’s a cabal of doctors doing medical procedures for funsies? And that if such a thing did exist, it would be a bigger problem than some company who has never seen you, never examined you, and you’ve already paid money to, denying the claim because they judge it “unnecessary” when the doctor who did see you claims it is?
So because a billionaire donated to this pac that means “billionaires” as a group are responsible for this? That’s like saying black people are responsible for electing Trump because >= 1 black person voted for him.
Your ignorance continues. Some of the billionaires fund it via intermediary organizations like Heritage Foundation. They are quite organized and not only acting as individuals.
Hypocrites just can’t let go of this comic. They love it. It’s like they have one thing that they hold onto for dear life. I don’t think they’ll ever stop posting it lol
Have you considered that different people have different beliefs, or do you just think everyone who disagrees with you is just one person who thinks the same thing?
It's what happens in China with Tiktok. The Party said Tiktok needed to have educational content instead of stupid content. Tiktok complied.
The CCP may be many bad things, but they don't fuck around when it comes to education and making sure their youth aren't wasting their youth on stupid dance videos.
