The issue isn’t taking time off, it’s that the prospective employee’s head is up their proverbial ass. First interview is propspecting. If you were selling a product, if the customer is asking about the return policy before even selecting an option, it’s a similar signal.
When you’re in a subsequent interview talking about the benefit plan, salary, etc, that’s where that sort of question is appropriate - you’re finalizing the deal.
I find this line of thinking incredibly bizarre. If PTO is important to the candidate, why should they waste their time spending hours interviewing only to find out that the work-life balance in this position isn't going to work for them? To you that's having their head up their ass? God that's strange to me. I'm sure glad I don't work for people who make sweeping judgements like that.
Employment is a partnership, not servitude. That means the employer needs to convince the employee to work for them. I'm fine being rejected by a place that will treat me like shit.
That's so spot on. Your Q&A session is your chance to learn something real and convey what you care about. A good question might me like "what's the hardest thing you had to do this year" or "how did you make decisions in cases of disagreement?" or something like that. It shows you're thinking about the job and whether you're a right fit.
High quality questions say something about you. Low quality questions do too. Would you ever hire someone whose question is like "so, do a lot of hotties work here?" Probably not, because ... what kind of person is this? Similarly, if the person who doesn't have an offer and doesn't know much about the role is hyper-focused on their time-off, something is off too. PTO is important, it's just a thing you need to be thinking about once you have an offer and think the job is otherwise a match, not as like the #1 question.
Different priorities I guess. Personally I’m exchanging my time for money and would like to know what kind of a deal I’m getting. I’m too old for all the fluff bullshit.
Yes yes yes I’m sure you’re changing the world and creating super exciting CRUD
> Different priorities I guess. Personally I’m exchanging my time for money and would like to know what kind of a deal I’m getting. I’m too old for all the fluff bullshit.... Yes yes yes I’m sure you’re changing the world and creating super exciting CRUD
You know, I actually found this comment clarifying. I don't look at work as solely exchanging time for money (don't get me wrong, I care about money a lot, I just want to get a lot more than money out of my work) so I was coming at it from a different direction.
I do think there's an employee-employer compatibility in play here. Because I care about engagement/mission, I tend to work at companies with a strong culture and seek the same when I interview others - but yeah it's a good reminder that this is not for what everyone wants/needs.
Depends. HR does everything they can to ensure I don't consider the questions I'm asked when deciding if we hire them. They can't stop me, but it is tricky to shoehorn your questions into their form so I don't try.
Working a full time job with family and hobbies is incredibly time consuming. I'm not going to squeeze in 6-10 hours of interviews for a company before I ask an important questions about company culture, PTO, benefits, salary etc. I'll ask the questions I find important in the first interview, if it isn't a good fit I just saved me hours of time interviewing at a company I don't want to work at - and I just saved hours of interviewing an employee they don't want to have.
Umm exactly? I’d rather get my own red flags out of the way rather than waste 8h of everyone’s time to find out the company has a shitty culture. I also checksum the compensation and on-call and other things in the first interview
Like it or not, when interviewing for a job, you're doing a sales presentation. A good sales presentation doesn't open by saying what you want. It opens by finding out what the customer's problems are, then you demonstrate that you can solve them, then when the customer is sold the price negotiation starts.
If you want to vet a company's benefits and culture beforehand, which is a good idea, do the homework first and research it before getting into the sales process.
The company buys, the candidate sells. This is proven by which way the money flows - from the company to the employee.
But both have to agree. You're right that a company will have to be willing to offer enough to get the candidate willing to sell.
I recall interviewing a candidate long ago who was only interested in what the company could do for him. He never displayed any interest in the company or what he could do for the company. I recommended no hire.
After all, what would you think if you went to a car dealership and their salesman would only talk about how much you had to pay and how much the dealership wanted your money, and never talked about what the car would do for you?
Picking a career you're interested in and company you're interested in makes things a lot easier than having to maintain a phony facade.
A word of caution - interviewers tend to interview people an order of magnitude or two more times than candidates do interviews. What this means is they learn to detect the bullshit. A friend of mine is in the recruiting business. He interviews candidates all day, and has for many years. He told me that detecting bullshitters and liars is a crucial job skill, and he's pretty good at it.
Maybe, but who dreams about envelopes? Yet society would fall apart without someone making them. The same can be said for the vast majority of things most companies make - it needs to be made, but it is in reality boring.
All companies have interesting problems to solve along the way. But most have boring products. I can work for most companies because even though the product is boring I know I will find something interesting. (the exceptions are companies doing something I find immoral)
There are all kinds of people. That said, if envelopes isn't your bag, nobody is making you interview with them. Find something that does interest you. Me, I'd rather be a lion tamer than a tax accountant (yes, I have the hat), but the guy who does my tax accounting loves it.
I don’t have to maintain a facade. Most companies don’t actually give a hoot if you buy into the CEOs blabberings. They care if I can get my tasks done on time and with decent quality. It’s all a part of the Gervais principle
You're right, but people know that someone interested in the work is likely to do a better job. Also, my point is about selling your ability to solve the company's problems rather than focusing on "what do I get".
Besides, why not pick a career that interests you? It makes for a better life.
This made me chuckle because occasionally, for some things I buy, return policy might be my primary concern (more important than even having the item in the first place).
You're reading way too deeply in to signals that could mean anything. At the risk of coming across as antagonistic - I'll probably start asking about PTO in the first interview even though it tends to be irrelevant to me, to avoid working with organizations that foster this mindset.
The issue isn’t taking time off, it’s that the prospective employee’s head is up their proverbial ass. First interview is propspecting. If you were selling a product, if the customer is asking about the return policy before even selecting an option, it’s a similar signal.
When you’re in a subsequent interview talking about the benefit plan, salary, etc, that’s where that sort of question is appropriate - you’re finalizing the deal.