this is much more minor than a cancer patient missing his last damn holiday, but I have a device running android tv, and every few days it auto-redownloads “Android TV Home”, which is an advert-infested replacement home screen run by (I assume) Google.
every time, I have to go into the Play Store and uninstall it again. uninstall the home screen! how illogical is that? and how would I have known how to do that if I wasn’t tech-savvy enough to find a reddit post telling me how?
every time, this resets my normal home screen, and I have to set it all back up again, removing the semi-advertising “channels” that are already in the less-bad default home screen.
the device this is on cost more than £500, and yet I’m still paying out in attention because greedy Google wants to please their shareholders
Just side load an Android app called "NetGuard" which is a free firewall app on Android (though it's only available on the Android phone, but you can still sideload it on the Shield TV). Download the NetGuard APK file and then install it on your Shield TV using a 3rd party file manager app (you can find the NetGuard .APK file on Google search, or you could use an APK extractor and extract the NetGuard app from your Android phone after downloading it from the Play Store). You might need to also download a 3rd party launcher to see the side loaded Android apps as it will not appear on the stock Android TV home launcher. Then open the NetGuard app and disable network connections to the "Software Upgrade" app, then switch on the NetGuard toggle and it will block the "Software Upgrade" system app from accessing the internet, therefore it cannot download the software update and then prompt you to install it with an annoying pop up screen message.
If you get a software update message and the software update gets downloaded, just go to the app settings of "Software Upgrade" and delete the app cache and data.
Once you have the NetGuard app enabled, it should auto start every time you boot up the Shield TV and it will always run in the background. I suggest that you regularly open the NetGuard app and have it in the background so just incase Android OS puts it to sleep.
Additionally, I suggest you go to Google Play Services and the Google app and disable all the app permissions to access storage or change system settings (though if you use things like Google Assistant or voice search, you may need to leave the microphone permission on). Do the same for the other Nvidia apps which you might think may try to control or change settings on your Shield TV without your permission.
I'm still on Android 8.0 on my 2017 Shield and I'm happy with it. I don't really need any extra features and nothing needs to be fixed. This is the only method I found to work. I have tried to delete the "Software Upgrade" app package from my computer using Android ADB but I just couldn't do it (maybe Nvidia blocked it). So the firewall method is the only option. I don't know if Nvidia made changes and blocked this method in newer updates, but try it and let me know if it works.
Wow. I think your reply demonstrates the crux of the issue perfectly. I can't tell if its satire or not.
It is insane that this level of workaround and hacks is required to avoid advertising and crapware on a £500+ _television_. Normal people have almost no hope for a good experience when you consider something like a Lenovo laptop from the OP.
You have the manufacture-installed adware, windows 10 + edge nonsense constantly nagging you, and then there is just the state of the web itself. Its all just too much.
It's one thing to hack for fun or to find new uses for hardware and software. It's another to live in a world where we purchase devices for hundreds of dollars, only to have a bait-and-switch on the software and suddenly we get ads on our splash page and a slower UI.
I'm glad there are workarounds, but they _shouldn't be needed_.
The thing that amazes me is the sheer amount of money that seems to be in advertising. It’s sometimes more profitable to surveil or shoehorn in ads than to sell products.
Could this be somehow related to two decades of cheap money and the bloated corporate budgets it created?
It works, there wouldn't be so much advertising without the gains. Of course in this process lots of companies and business, amateurs in advertising, loose money, and of course big companies try new stuff everytime and they loose money too. I'm a marketer and I really feel the ad sector is like a disservice to humanity, trowing money to the script driven money factory when lots of people can't even eat every day.
Samsung has now decided that for me to use the camera on my Android phone, i must give full permission to something called Nearby Devices. Thankfully, i can live without the camera but for the first time, i mulling over moving to Apple.
Samsung has fallen far. I switched to a cheap version of the pixel last time I got a new phone. Much longer os update cycle, and they essentially always get rom support first of all the phones. There is certainly better hardware put there but it only has google adware not the vendor's and Google's adware. And roms with no google are am option. I think I may consider an iphone when it gets usb-c but I would miss having a fedora install on my phone to do weird stuff. If they gave me a way to get a terminal where I could have rootless docker or jails on an iphone. I'd be on it. Bonus for having the usbc recognize keyboards, thumb drives and Ethernet adapters.
" For the past five years, Apple has been setting up for what will soon be its most profitable product line. It's not a new phone or computer: it's advertising. "
As some C-suite suit bonus will depend on that, you can be sure that the various protections will evaporate over the years.
Fearmongering or maybe you just haven't been watching? Apple has already been doing advertising for years now. They make it quite easy to disable any tracking you might be concerned about. There's zero reason to think they'll change that.
Pest or cholera - that's what happens when there is a monopoly and the monopoly buys out or sue every competitor. Google and Apple are laughing all the way to the bank, Just like Microsoft for PC.
> I suggest that you regularly open the NetGuard app and have it in the background so just incase Android OS puts it to sleep.
Shouldn't happen since NetGuard works as a ‘vpn client’ to pass connections through the app—so afaik reasonably it should stay working as long as the pseudo-vpn-connection is up.
(Not to be confused with actually connecting to a vpn server, which it doesn't do.)
I run blokada on my phone, which also acts as a pseudo vpn, and that does have problems with dying randomly and needing to be restarted. not sure if it's a bug in the software or a general android issue.
Perhaps Blokada doesn't properly run the background service, with a persistent notification. The notification is necessary since around Android 9 or so—and while NetGuard's ‘vpn’ is indicated in the status bar, it also still has a notification.
Some apps have a setting to disable the notification, but all that achieves is that the app doesn't stay running in the background.
By the way: I semi-randomly landed again on the dontkillmyapp site, and it notes that killing background apps works differently on different phones—presumably first of all between various manufacturers, since they tend to modify Android somewhat deeply: https://dontkillmyapp.com/google
More to the point, the site reminded me that you might want to verify if Blokada is exempted from ‘battery optimizations’ (works via app info —> ‘Battery’ —> ‘Battery optimization’ for me). I checked NetGuard on my phone, and sure enough I have the ‘optimization’ disabled for the app.
(Let me know if you see this comment, or I'm gonna notify you manually.)
hey, thanks for following up! I checked and blokada is set to "unrestricted battery use", so I'm going to guess it's just buggy (the previous version didn't have this issue)
It's getting harder and harder to turn this stuff off. Firefox wants to talk to its Sync and Pocket servers. I still have an Android phone with F-droid, no Google account, and all Google services turned off, but I don't know if that will work in my next phone.
I really don't think it was that bad. I'd put it in a DIY category with self-install of internet service or hooking up your own car alarm or other such "beneath the surface" technical things non-technical people manage to do for themselves every day by following youtube videos or whatever.
Either way do we need a new post every hour making this same point from yet a different angle?
I am not doubting you, but I'm surprised that it was cheaper. Every time this is discussed here on HN, or on other forums, the prevailing narrative is that it is increasingly difficult to buy a non-smart TV, and that the only option is to look for "industrial display panels" (or some similar designation), which, people claim, are rather expensive.
Note that I am only recounting hearsay, and I haven't done my research on this, as my three PC monitors cover my needs completely, and I have no need for a TV. I'm only "idly curious" about this topic, because one day I may need such a dumb TV.
HN consists of many different people in many markets.
For US folks, yes, you generally have to go for an industrial display panel which is slightly more expensive than a smart TV [whose lower price can be subsidized by the data they're eventually selling].
Maybe for the previous poster who is in the EU, faces a completely different market than the US, a market which is more favorable to non-smart TVs.
“Dumb TVs” can still be found in the US, but they tend to be quite low spec, using panels with mediocre at best performance. That’s not a problem for a lot of people but anybody looking for a nicer panel is probably stuck buying a smart TV.
Current Sony TVs offer a “basic TV” mode that disables all the smart stuff though, so they’re a decent option for more discerning buyers looking for a dumb TV.
the reason for the expensiveness being that “industrial display panels” are specifically built to prevent the burning in of an image, as consumer tvs will retain an image if held on that same image for too long
I have a 'smart tv' (HiSense) - and while it has a bunch of smart stuff that isn't that bad, the best thing is it starts on the input you left it on. So for me it always opens as connected to hdmi1/chromecast, and I never have to see the smart stuff and the tv itself has no internet connection
My 2018 Sony X900F behaves similarly. Have never connected it to the internet, and its near-stock Android TV install doesn’t nag me about that. When I turn it on it starts on the last used input and you don’t see any “smart” UI unless you explicitly summon it with the home button on the TV remote.
I’ve been using it with an Apple TV 4K and it’s been great.
don’t bother with a firestick. firesticks used to be good, but last year they forced an update that did pretty much the same thing as Android TV, but worse. a massive ad-banner across the top of the home screen that you can’t get rid of, with your apps relegated to a tiny ribbon, followed by semi-adverts underneath
at least with android TV it’s sort of, somewhat a choice, for now, but this is flat-out immutable. you used to be able to sideload an alternative home screen, but another forced update removed that option too
buying a firestick is buying adverts for inside your house
Was not expecting the level of animosity for this app. The last update in August apparently forced a ton of ads on the interface, even if people had paid subscriptions that would remove ads.
Absolute trash. In their boundless greed, Google decided to force endlessly cycling ads onto the home screen, and had the temerity to highlight it as a feature. I give two @$#@$# about the content they are highlighting, from a Christmas movie (in July) to the latest teen pablum. Pretty sure I had automatic updates disabled, and that was overwritten without my consent (with no way to roll back to the prior version). I took a chance on the Android ecosystem with this device (NVIDIA shield), and that's the last time I make that mistake. I'll be tossing that out and not looking back...
Unbelievable. They added unremovable ads right in the home screen. The "Staff Picks" takes over the top 30% of your screen advertising random videos from apps that I don't ever want to install. No way to turn off. How quickly my $2k TV turned from pleasant to ad infested junk. The only solution I had was was to uninstall updates in App manager. If this is the future of Android TV, I'm certainly not buying another TV with this OS again.
I paid a hefty sum for a top-end TV, then again for the most expansive TV box one can find, and what did I get? Ads! Ads that blink and distract. Ads that take more than a third of the screen, pushing what I want to see on the second page. Ads for movies I cannot be less interested in, on services I have absolutely no intention to subscribe to. Ads that have been trying to sell me the exact same three movies in genres I don't care about since they appeared. Evil greedy corporation at its worst.
IANAL but some of this stuff might be class-action-worthy. if you’ve paid to remove ads and they forced them back upon you, surely that’s an infringement of some variety?
I would think this would fall under the "false advertising" laws in any given state:
Minnesota Statue 325F.67 FALSE STATEMENT IN ADVERTISEMENT.
Any person, firm, corporation, or association who, with intent to sell or in anywise dispose of merchandise, securities, service, or anything offered by such person, firm, corporation, or association, directly or indirectly, to the public, for sale or distribution, or with intent to increase the consumption thereof, or to induce the public in any manner to enter into any obligation relating thereto, or to acquire title thereto, or any interest therein, makes, publishes, disseminates, circulates, or places before the public, or causes, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public, in this state, in a newspaper or other publication, or in the form of a book, notice, handbill, poster, bill, label, price tag, circular, pamphlet, program, or letter, or over any radio or television station, or in any other way, an advertisement of any sort regarding merchandise, securities, service, or anything so offered to the public, for use, consumption, purchase, or sale, which advertisement contains any material assertion, representation, or statement of fact which is untrue, deceptive, or misleading, shall, whether or not pecuniary or other specific damage to any person occurs as a direct result thereof, be guilty of a misdemeanor, and any such act is declared to be a public nuisance and may be enjoined as such.
They advertised there would be no ads, then promptly started serving ads while still collecting monthly subscription revenue I think fall into this area.
Yeah, I abandoned Android on my TV for this exact reason and now I use the TV as a dumb screen for an external streaming box (also running Android TV, but one that's less locked down and allows me to install my own launcher and control the UI).
I wish dumb TVs with good panels were easier to buy.
I'm getting close too, starting with the cancellation of my YT Premium subscription. All I wanted was to be able to watch my subscriptions in peace on my tv (e.g. bigclivedotcom) but instead I get random breaks (e.g. only the home page shows on the yt app, no access to subscriptions), daily reset of my playback speed preferences, etc. I hope the people who think it's cool to experiment with paying customers get to experience the same for the rest of their lives.
I really have to wonder what the corporate process behind implementing this was. they must have known people wouldn’t like it. they must have known they were literally making their product worse. when these decisions were made, did they feel bad? did they not care? did they delude themselves that people want “recommended content” against their will? did anyone at any point say “hey maybe we shouldn’t do this?”? I bet at least one person who was involved is on hacker news. maybe they’ll see this and can comment. or maybe someone who’s been in a similar position at a company
> did they delude themselves that people want “recommended content” against their will?
Probably. In fact, I think you're underestimating the degree to which they can.
Very few evil people actually think they're evil. Most think they're legitimately doing good and helpful things, while being extremely misguided as to what is good and helpful.
I have given up the fight. I have pihole. It blocks ads. I can see the broken ad square on my sony android tv/google chrome. I disabled the recommendation. I just scroll down to my favorite app "Emby" and start watching my stuff.
>because greedy Google wants to please their shareholders
I sometimes wonder, if the founder has controlling voting shares, or the shareholders on public exchange / stock market are non-voting shares. Would the company still have to please their non-voting shareholders?
Yes (to the extent that it's reasonably possible). Voting rights give you power, but you have a contractual obligation to use that power in the interest of _all_ your shareholders.
It's the same reason why, at least in theory, VC founders can't structure a deal that devalues everyone else to ~0 and pockets the extra money in a side-channel transaction. They definitely have the power to do so, but if you can prove that better options existed and have the inclination to take that to court then you have a decent shot at recovering damages.
Non-voting shareholders can and will sue, and in the US they will probably win. This pretty much forces companies to please shareholders as much as possible at the expense of everything else.
every time, I have to go into the Play Store and uninstall it again. uninstall the home screen! how illogical is that? and how would I have known how to do that if I wasn’t tech-savvy enough to find a reddit post telling me how?
every time, this resets my normal home screen, and I have to set it all back up again, removing the semi-advertising “channels” that are already in the less-bad default home screen.
the device this is on cost more than £500, and yet I’m still paying out in attention because greedy Google wants to please their shareholders