I agree we should be supporting whatever it is the actual people of these countries want. Online discourses about what other countries should do drive me nuts
If we had let the people decide in Ukraine, we probably wouldn't be at war now. Zelenskyy ran on and was largely elected because of a platform of making peace. And he kept his word once elected and negotiated a peace deal with Putin. It was the US and NATO that stepped in to break that apart when it was just about to be signed.
The people of Ukraine clearly supported peace and we should have respected the people's will
All 'peace' with Russia temporary they will only use it to rebuild there forces and attack again.
Why should anyone believe a word from a Russian peace agreement is actually going to be honoured?. They already previously promised to respect Ukraines sovereignty and to never invade it but they went ahead and did it anyway.
Russia is not a good faith actor, and you cannot treat it as one.
I generally agree, but they've been extremely clear that this is about NATO expansion. And NATO has actually made multiple promises to NOT expand to the point of Russia's border but has made those exact expansions 3 times in the past decades. Everything Russia's done has pretty much been a direct response to this. The primary ask of the peace deal was basically just that Ukraine doesn't join NATO (something which at the time was unpopular anyways). Add to that that Joe Biden (who was the head of the US's Russia's strategy under Obama) has been pretty explicit about everything since 2014. Their primary goal is to weaken Russia. That's exactly what this proxy war is and exactly why we keep sending so much "aid". That's also why in September 66 countries representing most of the world's population asked "all sides" to resume peace talks. They didn't just mean Russia and Ukraine...
Americans need to own up to their role in this (no, I'm not a Russia apologist)
> but they've been extremely clear that this is about NATO expansion
So? it doesn't matter what Russia thinks, Ukraine is a sovereign country that can join NATO if it wants, just like other former Warsaw pact countries they all probably have a very good reason.
> And NATO has actually made multiple promises to NOT expand to the point of Russia's border but has made those exact expansions 3 times in the past decades.
This is actually false, NATO has never made this promise, there is time just after the fall of the Soviet Union that people claim this was made but the person who was there at the time disagrees, you can read about that here.
> Everything Russia's done has pretty much been a direct response to this.
I agree thats it's very likely that everything Russia has done has to do with either perceived slights (that dont actually exist) or imperialism.
> The primary ask of the peace deal was basically just that Ukraine doesn't join NATO
The reason Russia doesn't want Ukraine joining NATO is so that they can try this again in the future, Ukraine needs solid military alliances (even if not NATO) that mandate boots on the ground.
> That's exactly what this proxy war is and exactly why we keep sending so much "aid"
Our "aid" actually stops Ukrainians being killed and tortured, but if your all for letting Ukraine been steam rolled and genocided by Russia you wouldn't want any "aid" sent I guess.
> Americans need to own up to their role in this (no, I'm not a Russia apologist)
I'll take your word for it but every single sentence so far has been pretty much straight pro Russian so don't be surprised if I find it not believable.
If your not a Russian apologist I take it you want Russia to leave Ukraine (including Crimea) and for war crimes proceedings to begin against the Russians who are committing war crimes in Ukraine?.
> And he kept his word once elected and negotiated a peace deal with Putin. It was the US and NATO that stepped in to break that apart when it was just about to be signed.
This is nonsense. Zelenskyy is on record saying the opposite and blaming Putin for not accepting the peace offering and also it’s obvious Putin started the war. Nobody else did
That isn't really a path, that is a destination - how do you want them to keep their independence? Because if the plan is to sit on China's border as a staunch, militarily aligned US ally that is a plan with some very obvious risks - especially in light of what happened to Ukraine.
In fact, the only way that ends well for Taiwan is if China experiences some sort of collapse. Possible, but not really a good strategy.
